Anita McNaught played Open Minds host to resident philosopher Jon Pike and special guest Richard Swinburne, Professor of Christian Philosophy at Oxford University to consider the subject of evil.

Meet the participants

Jon Pike

Jon Pike read politics, philosophy and economics at Trinity College, Oxford then studied for his doctorate at the University of Glasgow, where he went on to teach. He also taught at Stirling University before taking up his current post in the Open University's philosophy department.

He is a staff tutor in arts for the OU's South East region and his speciality is political philosophy.

Richard Swinburne

Richard Swinburne gained his degree in philosophy, politics and economics, BPhil in philosophy and diploma in theology from Oxford University and then took on the position of professor of philosophy at the University of Keele.

In 1985, he returned to his old University as Nolloth Professor of the philosophy of the Christian religion.

Richard has published many books – see below for details.

Some points from the discussion

Richard Swinburne:

Evil is a big word and can be used in lots of different ways – as any bad state, as any action bringing about a bad state or allowing a bad state to occur, or for acutely bad actions or events such as child abuse or starvation. An evil character can be one which is naturally prone to a bad state or one that has lost any conception of what good is, at all.

Jon Pike:

What does a description of good or evil add to our understanding? It could be that it says something about the source of an action. If we describe something as evil the connotation is that it is supernatural, beyond everyday experience. However, these days evil is more generally used to indicate a high level of badness and the implications of supernatural influence are less.

Richard Swinburne:

In answer to the question: If God exists, why does He allow evil?, He could stop all evil, but would need to stop forms of good as well. This springs from the importance of free choice. For example, God could look after all children so they wouldn’t get hurt, but parents would lose the benefit of parental responsibility. This would be a high price to pay.

Jon Pike:

We can learn without recognising evil – through avoiding pain and seeking pleasure. There is lots of ‘evil’ which doesn’t help us learn, for example the suffering of animals.

Richard Swinburne:

But even ‘natural’ evils, such as disease, encourage us to develop long-term plans to remove pain, to investigate the causes of our suffering and to help doctors understand how to combat it in the future.

We could say the Holocaust was evil, but it was made up of innumerable choices made by thousands of people. If God took away the event, then He would have to take away the free choice of all those thousands of people.

Jon Pike:

It’s worrying that any bad event can be put down to a wider picture. Is there any evil action which could undermine the theory of a benevolent God?

Take it further

Listen to a modern spin on age-old dilemmas: Ethics Bites

The Coherence of Theism, Richard Swinburne (Clarendon Press)

The Evolution of the Soul, Richard Swinburne (Clarendon Press)

Revelation, Richard Swinburne (Clarendon Press)

Providence and the Problem of Evil, Richard Swinburne (Clarendon Press)

From Aristotle to Marx, Jon Pike (Ashgate)

Why not take philosophy and ethics further with the Open University?